Invincible VS, a fighting game based on the popular animated and comic book series, is slated to launch next year. It’s also featured in EVO 2025, where Destructoid had the opportunity to speak with its Lead Combat Designer, John Bautista.
Bautista shared valuable insight into the team’s experience with fighting games, specifically Killer Instinct, as well as details on Invincible VS‘s game design, approach, inspirations, character roster and mechanics, and more.
Note: Parts of this interview were edited to improve the reading experience.
I wanted to, first of all, discuss, obviously, the team’s previous involvement in Killer Instinct. I wanted to know how the team has taken those lessons learned at Killer Instinct and then built on that for such a huge IP that Invincible VS is right now.
John Bautista (Lead Combat Designer for Invincible VS): So several of us were originally on the Double Helix team, so Killer Instinct 2013. To be perfectly honest, pretty much everything we learned throughout that experience, we tried to figure out applications for, because there was a lot that we learned throughout that entire development cycle. We applied a lot to that, to the core foundation of the game itself, so the movement, the character[s], character interactions, hitboxes, frame data, all of the above, all the foundational elements. But one of the biggest bits of nuance that we discovered during the development of Killer Instinct was how interesting the two-way interaction was with the counter system.
And as we’re developing a tag fighter, we’re trying to figure out how to get that two-way interaction into a tag fighter, but make it make sense? And that was actually one of the biggest hurdles that we had to kind of get over, because, you know, tag fighters are all about combos. It’s, “How high can I make this combo go? How many hits can I get? Can I catch a break?” All of that stuff. And we don’t want to take away from the player’s fun. We want to make sure any sort of interaction we include is organic, and we managed to include picking and choosing when we’re allowing those potential breaks to happen through our assist breakers and our counter tags. And the way we’re doing that is [in] our layering the foundation for our system, we picked and chose opportunities to include those breaking mechanics.
And throughout the years of testing and working [on] FGC, we managed to land on this really solid foundation of these fun back-and-forth interactions that include a lot of mind games that made Killer Instinct so popular and so successful in what it was doing, and we felt that we landed on something sweet.
It’s interesting you bring up tag fighters, because there seems to be a big abundance of tag fighters available now. I just wondered if you could touch on what the team is bringing to tag fighters to make it different, so it doesn’t feel like every other tag fighter on the market right now.
Bautista: So one of our big emphases when we first started thinking about how we could put together a tag fighter was, of course, reviewing what previous tag fighters had done. And one of the biggest things we discovered was people were often scared to bring in their assist or to actually tag freely, because there was all the risk of like, oh yeah, if I do this at the wrong time, that character is dead. And so we tried to figure out different ways to mitigate that, in different avenues.
On top of that, we’re also trying to figure out different ways to emphasize your wanting to utilize your teammates as much as possible. We don’t want this to be like, oh, yeah, you bring them on [for] very small opportunities to emphasize certain attacks. We’re like, no, like, utilize them as much as you can. By doing so, you’re increasing the number of hits you can get. You’re mitigating risk. You’re adding different opportunities to convert on combos and so on and so forth. And by doing so, we kind of landed on this really active flow for the combo systems.
So some of the unique mechanics that we included, going back to the two-way interactions, is we have something called the assist breaker. So while you’re getting hit in the middle of a combo, you can actually bring in your assist to disrupt your opponent’s combo. But it’s not free. You know, there’s a big hit for your cooldown. It costs two bars of what we call the boost gauge. And then on top of that is if your opponent actually anticipates you calling in your assist breaker, if they pop a super at just the right time, they get in Happy Birthday, because they’re gonna blast right through that and maximize their damage. It’s really cool, [and], like I said, that mindgame, the back and forth interaction is awesome to see in-game.
Let’s actually just talk about this game, because I think it’s very important. It’s obviously an Invincible IP that has a huge history behind it. You have a lot of material to work with, not just with the show that’s become popular, but the comic books. I was wondering where the team looks at when designing a character’s fighting style and such, and where you take your main inspirations from to turn it from what you’ve already seen to something that works in a fighting game.
Bautista: So our main inspiration is everything, to be perfectly honest. Whenever we’re about to start working on a character, we always do deep dives. We look at everything available on the character’s past, such as what their appearances were in the show and the comic books, and if they have any adjacent appearances in other media whatsoever. And then we draw upon that to figure out what are some key moments, what are some key beats? Like, what was really cool about this character, and how do we take that and incorporate it into the game?
We also take opportunities to really delve into characters’ personalities [and] their backstories. There are a lot of cheeky nods to backstories for different characters. If you look at Bulletproof, there’s a very specific moment in the comic book that we’re referencing with his Ultimate, and it’s one of those little things where, like, if we have a chance to do that, we’re gonna do that.
And all these characters have a very vast, broad history that we can draw upon. And so it takes a lot of research, but once we get in there, we try to figure out what their motivation is, what’s their attitude, what’s their presence? Where can we lean on stuff to really express that character in new and interesting ways, and actually bring out their fighting style? Like, how would Bulletproof fight differently from Invincible, you know, how does Battle Beast fight?
We have different things to draw from, from media and [other] stuff. But translating that to gameplay is a lot of trial and error, a lot of experimentation. But all in all, it’s really exciting, because we can push things as far as we need to just to get the kind of gameplay that we’re looking for.
When you’re actually deciding on what characters to add to the roster, are you kind of limited at the moment in terms of just focusing on the characters that have appeared in the TV show, or will we actually be able to see characters like Dinosaurus, Space Racer, [and] other characters. Is the team [bound] by just the show roster at the moment, or will we actually see some of those that haven’t appeared in the Amazon Prime series in the future?
Bautista: I’m definitely limited in what I can answer. I will say that we are looking for inspiration wherever and whenever possible. When people saw Bulletproof, they were pretty surprised, you know, because they were like, “Wait, he’s kind of a background character. Why would they bring him into the roster?” But we found different ways to, like you said, pull his personality in and mix it up, versus some of the other characters.
So we have opportunities and a very large potential roster to draw from with the IP, and there are going to be some restrictions based on where things are at. But we are actively working with the writers, with the animation team, and so on, to maximize the potential for the characters themselves. So, look forward to some interesting surprises and exciting events.
So, do you think it might be a case that, hopefully, if this game is still getting content years down the line, as characters are added to the show, could that be a potential future DLC situation?
Bautista: There is always a chance there, yeah. I will say, as we’re developing characters, we’re looking for holes in our roster, [and ask] who could fill that gap, who could actually fit [that] role, especially, versus the characters that we have. Who could really stand out in different ways? And, like I said, we have a lot of characters to draw from that we’re already picking [and being like] this could make a lot of sense, [so] let’s see where things can land.
Let’s talk about the universe [the game] is based on. It’s not mainline Invincible, as we’ve seen in the trailers, but more like an alternative universe. Obviously, Invincible is built on multiple versions of Angstrom Levy, etc., so I was wondering if Robert Kirkman or anyone on his team will have any say on the world you’re building here, or if this is all in-house, with you building it from scratch and making your own [universe]?
Bautista: We work directly with the writers and Robert in general, across the board. They’re the ones who are actually crafting the story that we’re working with. So it gives us very interesting opportunities to push things in different directions. Robert Kirkman definitely has input across the board. He plays the game a lot and gives us feedback, and we actually have footage of him playing with Mike Willette, our executive producer. It’s just him and Mike, going back and forth, talking s**t, having a lot of fun. It’s just awesome to see.
How fun has it been to work on this project for you?
Bautista: I will say, as we’ve worked on Killer Instinct in the past were unable to actually finish the project because we were bought out by Amazon at the time, this feels almost like a redemption arc, like a chance to get back into it. There’s a lot that we put into this, similar to our time with Killer Instinct. We love fighting games, we love the FGC, we’re part of that community.
How important has it been that the community has shown you that much love back?
Bautista: It’s everything. We [aren’t making] this game for us, even though it’s a part of us; we’re making it for the FGC. So that’s why we love working with them, every step of the way.
So, how important would it be for you if this were on the main stage one day?
Bautista: That would be amazing. Seeing people enjoy your game wholeheartedly, it just hits you. What I love, especially, is getting the game into people’s hands, having them have fun, and seeing them go nuts with the game. I love the smiles, those intense stares, and the intense stare-downs that the FGC has. It’s so good. And having the opportunity to see that again firsthand means the world to me.
